No word on what she died of.
I noticed lots of handheld camera in this episode, especially early on. I liked it, a bit of a change from the usual style.
It is pretty odd that on a show where people commonly get their brains blown out that I was extremely put off by the shower shit.
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| Originally Posted by Ratty I never thought I’d say this, but I actually felt sorry for A.J. tonight. |
That was rough, but the marching band playing “Livin’ La Vida Loca” in the background was a great little comic touch. Made me chuckle.
The shit-in-the-shower was probably the most out-of-left-field thing imaginable; as much as it sickened me, I have to give it credit - I definitely didn’t see it coming.
I foresee bad things happening to Vito Jr. in the Idaho camp if they decide to pursue that arc.
I’m really liking this season–how every episode involves Tony’s relationship with one of his “friends”, first Bobby, then Christopher, Paulie, and Hesh.
I liked Hesh’s comments about Tony and his financial situation. I always justify Tony’s behavior because the money is so fucking good. But really he doesn’t even have that. Sad.
I don’t think there’s going to be a big tie up at the end–it’s just not Chases style.
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| Originally Posted by Jesse The Mind I foresee bad things happening to Vito Jr. in the Idaho camp if they decide to pursue that arc. |
With 5 eps left, that better be the last we see of Vito Jr. That was his arc; he’s a casualty of the lifestyle, an illustration of the culture’s absolute lack of coping mechanisms and responsibility. This is what these people do with their problems. Shoot it, turn your back on it, or pack it up and send it to Idaho.
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| Originally Posted by 70sCinema With 5 eps left, that better be the last we see of Vito Jr. That was his arc; he’s a casualty of the lifestyle, an illustration of the culture’s absolute lack of coping mechanisms and responsibility. This is what these people do with their problems. Shoot it, turn your back on it, or pack it up and send it to Idaho. |
Exactly. Even his mother’s solution – give me a hundred grand so I can move away – is just tossing a band-aid on the problem.
And Vito Jr.'s arc maintains that theme of the era ending that’s been going on. There’s no one to step into the shoes of the old-timers. None of these kids have the awe of their parents the way Tony did of his dad, and the desire to follow in their footsteps is totally gone. This thing of theirs is dying on the vine, a kingdom with aging kinds and no heirs worthy of the throne. And I think Tony’s going to be forced to face the fact that his whole life has amounted to nothing.
Man, i dont know if i’m expecting too much, but this season has been pretty dismal so far. This past episode came right out of left field and made absolutely no sense.
It just seems they are dedicating an episode to one character, then moving on.
Also, the episode was only 46 minutes long???
But you got to see a kid shit on the floor of a high school shower. It all balances out.
Did you guys see that? That kid pooped in the shower and then stepped in the poop he just pooped!
Setting aside the poop business, the scene that stuck out most to me was Tony seeing the two Arab guys from the Bing! Someone mentioned earlier in this thread that they thought Tony might end up ratting them out to the Feds. That seems the most tragic ending as Tony would have turned into the very thing he despised so much of his life. Dying or going to jail are compatible with the mafioso image. But having to live out your days knowing you gave up your “friends”? The guilt and shame might be too much for Tony to bear.
What does anyone think about the advice both Phil and Tony gave Vito Jr. and his reaction? Both basically say he’s got to step up and be the man of the house; that he’s the boss now. What does Vito Jr. do? He shits himself. Will that be a portent or commentary on the two bosses and of what’s to come?
I don’t know if anyone would look too harshly on Tony giving up two Arabs as part of a terror plot, especially since they’re not really part of the “family.” I mean there’d be some grumbling, but it doesn’t seem like the apocalyptic event that would ruin him.
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| Originally Posted by Richard Dickson I don’t know if anyone would look too harshly on Tony giving up two Arabs as part of a terror plot, especially since they’re not really part of the “family.” I mean there’d be some grumbling, but it doesn’t seem like the apocalyptic event that would ruin him. |
I’m thinking more of Tony’s state of mind as opposed to the downfall of the Family. Tony’s had a tough time with the emotional toll The Llife has taken on him, and becoming a rat seems, to me at least, like something he would really not be able to deal with very well – especially because he gave up his dignity for people not really part of the “family”. The mere mention of giving up the Arabs when the Feds asked him about it when he went to get the paper earlier in the season made him absolutely livid. If he actually went through with it, I have a feeling its a decision he felt forced to make and would have a lot of anguish over.
Plus, in the larger picture, yeah Chase leaves some threads open, but I doubt the show would keep bringing the Arabs up if they didn’t have a role, albeit maybe not a cruicial one, in the series finale.
I got the feeling he was more pissed off at the Feds being there period than at what they were asking him. And I can’t see Tony thinking that preventing another 9/11 is a loss of dignity, unless what you’re getting at is that he gives them up without them having really done anything, in which case I see your point.
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| Originally Posted by Richard Dickson I got the feeling he was more pissed off at the Feds being there period than at what they were asking him. And I can’t see Tony thinking that preventing another 9/11 is a loss of dignity, unless what you’re getting at is that he gives them up without them having really done anything, in which case I see your point. |
I brought this up earlier, but I think that scene was meant to show that Tony realizes that whether it involves possible terrorism or stolen vitamins, a rat is a rat (“we got a name for that where I come from,” I believe, were his words). Over the course of the series, throughout all the murder and philandering and extortion, Tony has always managed to look down on a couple groups of people, most notably rats and degenerate gamblers. I think the route they’re going with in the final episodes is to turn everybody against him, and remove any last illusions of his being a stand-up guy. Last night’s episode supports this to my mind by bringing the gambling front and center. Ratting out a member of the family might be too big of a stretch, but a couple of unconnected Arabs? Just the people that he could sell out and almost live with, if we hadn’t seen that he knows cooperating with the Feds in any way is a violation of his supposed principles. Oh, and of course there won’t be an actual terrorist plot; shitting in the shower is one thing, side-lining the personal struggles of the flawed characters you’ve focused on for 10 years so they can play Jack Bauer in the finale is a whole different level of left-fieldness.
One other thing: I don’t see how people can say the gambling plot came out of nowhere. We’ve seen Tony hanging at casinos and betting on horses and football throughout seasons 3, 4, and 5, and even more so in recent episodes. The risk/reward talk with Bobby and even to some extent the Monopoly debate indirectly addressed it in Soprano Home Movies too.
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| Originally Posted by Richard Dickson unless what you’re getting at is that he gives them up without them having really done anything, in which case I see your point. |
Yup. We haven’t seen them do anything really wrong.
I don’t know how the gambling is a new thing. Hell, Ralphie was killed because a racehorse Tony bought died.
The thing with the gambling I guess is that it’s so much in the forefront now.
Another way of looking at this last batch of episodes is that they’re systematically undermining everything Tony likes about himself. Think about it, what are some of the things he takes pride in? Being a tough guy? The first ep had him getting his ass kicked by what everyone thought was the softest guy in his crew. Being a good mentor/role model for the younguns? Christopher hates him. Being respectful of his elders and tradition? He almost killed his “uncle Paulie” because of some vague paranoia and the fact that he’s annoying sometimes. Not being one of the “degenerate fucking gamblers” both parents always warned him about? 100K on a football game. Plus it looks like next week may the Blanca thing may have AJ falling off of the right track Tony was finally able to get him on, which would undermine his success as a parent, and his fighting with Carmela has hit a peak like we haven’t seen since “Whitecaps”. I’m thinking the series will end with Tony alive and out of jail, but with it being abundantly clear that he’s a miserable, hypocritical failure of a human being. I see snitching on the Arabs, with the implication that more could follow, as being the kicker.
I dunno, we already know Tony’s a hypocrite… we already know any mob guy has the capacity to be a rat. Besides, I don’t see how ratting out the Arab dudes would imply he’s going to rat out his friends. One’s a paranoia thing, the other’s a “I just got threatened with a life sentence” thing. The question would be, do the mob guys find out he was talking to the feds, for whatever reason? Or does it open Tony’s eyes to the fact that he is a hypocrite?