Originally Posted by Fazer I am also doubting how much the Others knew about inman and eventually desmond’s exploits in the hatch. They referred to the other stations not working like they were supposed to “a long time ago”. Maybe they had no idea what was going on in the other stations, and had no clue how important pushing the button actually was until Desmond caused the plane crash. There was also no reference to the “incident” that they often talked about in the Dharma films from S2 also.
I tend to agree with this assessment. Specifically because when Jack points out that he’s in an aquarium Juliett replies, “Yes. They called it The Hydra.”
Originally Posted by g-dude From halfway around the world? The hotel manager opened the door to his dad’s room and was with him when he discovered the body. What would even put the shadow of a hint of this theory in your head?
We never saw Jack’s father’s death. Why couldn’t he just have been pretending to be surprised?
Admittedly, I haven’t seen that episode in a while. If there are details that rule out this theory, fine. But you can’t assume, with this show being what it is, that Jack “discovering” that his dad was dead was genuine.
Originally Posted by jonvoight’s car I read on another board (TWOP) that several people thought that Jack’s patient in one of the flashbacks last night was Zeke. I didn’t notice. Did anyone happen to catch that?
Thanks for bringing that up. I noticed it, too. It jumped out at me enough that I rewound the scene twice, but I couldn’t tell either way.
Originally Posted by Fazer They referred to the other stations not working like they were supposed to “a long time ago”.
To take this discussion in another direction, it sort of came off to me that Juliet was saying that she was part of the original research team, but that part of her life was a long time ago.
The exchange went something like…
Jack: So this was part of their experiments…part of the Dharma Initiative?
Juliet: They called it the Hydro.
Jack: So you people are what’s left over of them?
Juliet: Well, that was along time ago. It doesn’t matter who we were. It only matters what we are.
I might be reading too much into it, and as DaveB has been saying, we shouldn’t take anything the Others say at face value, particularly when they are talking to the Losties, but that’s the vibe I got from the exchange was that they knew all about the hatches.
Originally Posted by gravedigger I guess if the file is real, it means the Others have a pretty sophisticated set-up somewhere on the island or really close.
I think she was lying. Ben tells Juliette that she did “good work” with Jack. If she only had to read a file, there would have been no pat on the back. Well, other than for a good job that she can read.
She could be a telepath which would be interesting.
If Ben’s group of people have a ‘sophisticated set-up,’ that seems like a costly endeavor for little apparent gain. That analysis leads me to believe she is a good manipulator and fabricator.
Originally Posted by Diva To take this discussion in another direction, it sort of came off to me that Juliet was saying that she was part of the original research team, but that part of her life was a long time ago. The exchange went something like… Jack: So this was part of their experiments…part of the Dharma Initiative? Juliet: They called it the Hydro. Jack: So you people are what’s left over of them? Juliet: Well, that was along time ago. It doesn’t matter who we were. It only matters what we are. I might be reading too much into it, and as DaveB has been saying, we shouldn’t take anything the Others say at face value, particularly when they are talking to the Losties, but that’s the vibe I got from the exchange was that they knew all about the hatches.
I agree with that. Good call. I believe she did subtly admit they were working the station
As far as the information in the file…i guess if you extrapolate that information COULD have been retrieved in their time studying the losties way back to when Ethan had infiltrated them. But she was pretty damn specific with his med school career and what not. The one thing that struck me as odd was that she only answered “yes” to jack’s question about his ex’s happiness. I don’t need a file to give that answer…but I think it was more of a character moment in that he didnt ask the other guy’s name and just asked about sarah’s happiness which is what he should have been worrying about from the beginning.
Except that she used some fact as to his real world life to facilitate any manipulation. She knew his last name, college and med snhool history and where he worked in L.A. Pretty extensive for someone who has been on the island for ostensibly as long as Juliette has. Though I do not discount the telepath speculation at this point.
ETA - In addition there is no actual reason to assume that the others aren’t currently in contact with the outside world either. Oh and there is an issue with Juliettte’s age. Were she a member of the original Dharma roup wouldn’t she look a lot older? Though I don’t dispute she is with Dharma or was at one point.
Originally Posted by The Prankster We never saw Jack’s father’s death. Why couldn’t he just have been pretending to be surprised? Admittedly, I haven’t seen that episode in a while. If there are details that rule out this theory, fine. But you can’t assume, with this show being what it is, that Jack “discovering” that his dad was dead was genuine.
Nor has there been any indication that Jack ninja’d his own father. What evidence do you have that supports Jack being dis-ingenouis when he recieves the news his father is dead? Where do you see a cold-blooded killer traveling to Sydney just to put his father in the ground? Where’s the deception in his eyes when he goes to identify the body?
Also–the autopsy report, if I remember correctly, read by the mortician said his father drank himself to death. After the scenes with Sawyer and Ana-Lucia, I see no reason at all to doubt this.
What I hope they finally feel like getting around to this season is why the fuck his father’s casket was empty. Hearing his voice on the intercomm gives me hope that it’ll be addressed at some point.
Originally Posted by Mad Man Mundt ETA - In addition there is no actual reason to assume that the others aren’t currently in contact with the outside world either. Oh and there is an issue with Juliettte’s age. Were she a member of the original Dharma roup wouldn’t she look a lot older? Though I don’t dispute she is with Dharma or was at one point.
I believe that if this is some kind of utopian experiement society project, the second generation could easily be in their late 20s/early 30s, as Julliett appears to be.
And I believe the Others have some kind of connection to the outside world–how else could they have CDs?
Originally Posted by g-dude What I hope they finally feel like getting around to this season is why the fuck his father’s casket was empty. Hearing his voice on the intercomm gives me hope that it’ll be addressed at some point.
That and the fact that Jack sees his “father” on the island. Whether or not he was imagining things…
For some reason, I don’t think Hyrda Station is actually underwater. When Jack finally leaves, it will be revealed to be like a movie set, with water pumps outside the main door to create the illusion. It just seems like something the Others/Dharma/Cuse & Lindelof would do to us.
Also, Cuse & Lindelof revealed on the most recent LOST podcast that there are (spoiler) multiple factions of Others on the island. For what it’s worth.
Jack didn’t kill his father. There is nothing to suggest it, and everything indicates that Jack is not a killer, or a very good actor, for that matter.
I think it’s very safe to say that the Others have contact with the outside world at this point. So Jack’s file could have been put together either in advance or quickly upon his arrival, but another thing about it is that despite Juliet’s words, she didn’t prove a really in-depth knowledge of his life. They knew where he went to school, where he worked, and that he was married. That’s the kind of information you can get off MySpace in 5 minutes. As for Sara being happy, she could have just been saying what he wanted to hear, or (and this is the way I’m leaning) she could know because Sara has gotten involved with the Others somehow, and that is what she and Jack’s dad were trying to hide from him.
Originally Posted by g-dude I believe that if this is some kind of utopian experiement society project, the second generation could easily be in their late 20s/early 30s, as Julliett appears to be. And I believe the Others have some kind of connection to the outside world–how else could they have CDs?
Agreed. I didn’t mean to infer she was a scientist working with the Degroots (although she could have been a student of their’s and came on baord as a reseach assistant or something), but that she was connected to the Dharma Initiative in some. g-dude’s suggestion that she’s second-generation works just as well.
And of course they have contact with the outside world. That’s how they get their food drops and such. Not to mention the large freaking wire running from the island into the ocean and who knows where. It’s probably connected to a giant computer. I wouldn’t be surprised to see The Architect watching all the rats run in the maze.
Originally Posted by Diva Well, its happened before right? Weren’t Rousseau and her ship; the Nigerian plane; and the Black Rock all pulled to the island by the anomoly?
And maybe more… was that pull-back shot before the title came up the first time we’ve seen the entire island from an aerial view? I noticed this when we saw the shot from Michael’s raft at the end of S1, but it really hits home how very NOT SMALL the island is in this new reveal.
Now to see if anyone online has posted a screenshot of that view.
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Originally Posted by Agent 86 …She could be a telepath which would be interesting…
Yes, it would be.
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Originally Posted by Mad Man Mundt …Oh and there is an issue with Juliettte’s age. Were she a member of the original Dharma roup wouldn’t she look a lot older? Though I don’t dispute she is with Dharma or was at one point.
Again, I’m not a fan of metagame nonsense, but when trying to refresh my memory for S3 I spent some time on lostpedia and this page (though it pertains to info from the Lost Experience) may help to explain that.
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Originally Posted by Schwartz …or (and this is the way I’m leaning) she could know because Sara has gotten involved with the Others somehow, and that is what she and Jack’s dad were trying to hide from him.
Yeah, that’s what I’m inclined to believe as well. Everytime we get a new Jack flashback, part of me becomes more convinced that his dad is/was involved with the Initiative and/or the island in general.
Did anyone else have a little flashback to the old Infocom text adventure version of “The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy” when Sawyer was solving the puzzle while kept in the cage? I suppose you could just assume the fish biscuit was designed for the polar bears … but the minute a fish popped out of that chute, after his methodical efforts, I know I thought Babel Fish.
(And I completely agree with the Planet of the Apes comments above, particularly with regard to the score. It certainly seemed like Giacchino was “quoting” Goldsmith’s classic soundtrack, much like he quoted John Barry’s Bond themes in “The Incredibles”. He’s got a real talent for evoking the feel and memory of familiar scores in a way that is still unique and accomplished.)
Originally Posted by RichFulcher I suppose you could just assume the fish biscuit was designed for the polar bears … but the minute a fish popped out of that chute, after his methodical efforts, I know I thought Babel Fish.
I think The Prankster nailed it with “red herring.”
Someone told me the pilot of the plane was in Jack’s father’s alcoholic group. I don’t know if anyone noticed this or not. Did anyone see him in that scene?
Originally Posted by bobblemonkey And maybe more… was that pull-back shot before the title came up the first time we’ve seen the entire island from an aerial view?
We didn’t even see close to the entire island in that shot…