ALIEN series

FILM The Franchises
1

Ok well time to dip in and actually start a topic…

I must confess to being a huge ALIEN fan, I thought, rightly or wrongly, that ALIEN is one of the best SF horror films of the past 30 years. From a fantastic script, brilliant cinematography, amazing set design and of course one of the best movie monsters ever handled carefully enough to keep it scary to the last moment when finally its revealed to be a guy in a suit…

Aliens was a great natural progression for the series, but I didn’t like the concept of a Queen, which seemed to fullfill the need to have a single bad guy for the audience to cheer once it was beaten to a pulp and flushed out of the airlock.

Alien 3, was in hindsight a David Fincher film and was always going to be relentlessly grim, again this is all said with the knowlege of hindsight… at the time I hated it and the fact that it renders the whole end of Aliens pointless by the killing off of three major characters within 20 mins of the opening credits. But now I’ve managed to come to terms with it and while I will never truely love the film I can at least accept it for what it is.

Alien Ressurection was just awful, with no redeming features what so ever, dispite Jeunets attempts to stamp his own vision on the project ultimately is was just pointless and the less said about the fucking newborn and its slapping the face off a Queen the better…

And now we have Alien Vs Predator which frankly devolves and defangs the fantastic creation of HR Giger and kills the mythos and fear around the title creature created so carefully in the first two movies by Ridley Scott and James Cameron… Poor doesnt even cover it…

So… I’m sure I’m not alone in having an opinion on these films? And given the proven law of deminishing returns would you ever want to see another Alien film?

2

I´d love to see a new Alien film!
Ridley Scott and Sigourney Weaver have been talking about doing a new one, it doesn´t seem like it´s gonna happen though, at least not according to this quote by Ridle Scott from Darkhorizons.com

Scott also confirmed he’s eager to do more science fiction, but he won’t be revisiting one franchise he helped create: The “Alien” movies - “No, I think they’ve wrung it dry”.

What a shame.

3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Randolph Carter I´d love to see a new Alien film! Ridley Scott and Sigourney Weaver have been talking about doing a new one, it doesn´t seem like it´s gonna happen though, at least not according to this quote by Ridle Scott from Darkhorizons.com Scott also confirmed he’s eager to do more science fiction, but he won’t be revisiting one franchise he helped create: The “Alien” movies - “No, I think they’ve wrung it dry”. What a shame.

A shame but lets be honest, not a surprise… Scott did the best Alien film from the off, no need to reinvent the wheel I suppose, but I would say that in my heart of hearts I’d love to see what Scott would have done with another Alien movie.

4

The first Alien film is actually my favorite film. I think it’s the best movie of the series. Gritty, real characters involved in a nightmare. Best haunted house and possibly sci fi flick ever imo.

The second film is ssoooo close to topping the first one, but the characters are more cartoonish than the original which drops it down a bit for me. Great, great film however with adrenaline to spare.

I like the third film. Grim and hopeless with a (strong) dash of artiness.

The fourth one sucks. I’ve tried to like it, and there are a couple of scenes that (barely) make me forget what a complete turd this one is.

I have the Quadrilogy box set which has the most amazing transfer of Alien on it. This is a must have for Alien lovers.

I wouldn’t mind seeing a well done Alien film. Well done being the caveat. There are definitely still legs in the franchise.

5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee I didn’t like the concept of a Queen, which seemed to fullfill the need to have a single bad guy for the audience to cheer once it was beaten to a pulp and flushed out of the airlock.

or maybe fulfil the need to explain where the eggs seen in the first film came from, no? or did you think those babies just popped up right out of nowhere one chilly november morning?

btw, the search engine should give you at least 2-3 old threads where we’ve discussed hopes and wishes for a fifth film.

6

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowpulse Quote:

Firstly my apologies for starting another Alien topic… I didnt see a search engine at the time of posting but I am still finding my way around here, but considering theres about 20 star wars threads I kinda figured an Alien thread wasn’t going to be too big a deal… still I’ll check next time I start a thread…

As far as the Queen thing is concerned, because I consider Alien as the best of the series and the Directors cut had the inclusion of the cocoon / egg transformation sequence, along with the fact I had seen that sequence on a old VHS copy a long while back. Combined with the fact the egg transform sequence was in the novelisation of Alien which came out some years before Aliens, I was hoping that they’d stick with the explanation / suggestion that the eggs in the egg chamber seen in the first film were the rest of the crew of the Alien derelict, as hinted by Lamberts line while in the derelict of “I wonder what happened to the rest of the crew?”

That concept negates the need for a big beasty at the end of Aliens and makes the monsters even more creepy and odd, rather than just suggesting with a Queen that they are nothing more than a bunch of big intergalactic ants.

7

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee I was hoping that they’d stick with the explanation / suggestion that the eggs in the egg chamber seen in the first film were the rest of the crew of the Alien derelict

yeah, but even so, those eggs had to come from some place. they were put there by someone, yes, but were they artificially created in a lab or biologically by some creature?

cameron answered that question and completed the zoological picture of the alien species. as for the queen, she had to be pretty big because the eggs are huge themselves, and when a creature is that big, it naturally packs quite a punch.

8

[SPOILERS]

I absolutely love the two first. Period. Blind love with those two (I can see their flaws, I don’t give a shit about them).

I really really like Alien3. It’s flawed, that’s for sure, but holy shit - an alien born out of a rottweiller (sp?) is a truly powerful idea, meant to delete any clue of human in this creature. I like more the producer’s cut in the Quadrilogy (except for the ox part - a cow alien to milk? No way!), as it seems to fill the black plot holes that damaged the theatrical version so badly. Still there are the “blah” secondaries (an EXCELLENT bunch of actors with no meat to chew, a shame) and some nonsensical choices, but I tend to be very indulgent with this entry. And I love the ending - a really ballsy choice not too well executed, but I like it.

Alien Resurrection is a studio product, a byproduct, a good-looking cutie with no brain: you date twice and you know it upside-down. It’s filled with good ideas (the mixed alien-human breed is a good one, but it ended looking like shit) but it’s too episodic, and the really good characters that are killed (fuck! You cannot kill Michael Wincott, Kim Flowers and Michael Dourdan!) in a row. Dan Hedaya does not work here, and the humor is clumsy like hell.

I could go on, but I don’t want to. Bye.

9

Quote:
Originally Posted by slowpulse yeah, but even so, those eggs had to come from some place. they were put there by someone, yes, but were they artificially created in a lab or biologically by some creature? cameron answered that question and completed the zoological picture of the alien species. as for the queen, she had to be pretty big because the eggs are huge themselves, and when a creature is that big, it naturally packs quite a punch.

I agree Cameron did put a logical earthbound progression in to creature and that is fair enough! But some of the horror of the creature was the fact that by its nature in the first film it was very very alien… who knows how the eggs started off or where the creature came from? Like the beast itself the mystery and the fact that it was unknowable & unpredictable beyond the fact that it was changing and extremely hostile was part of its mystique. Part of the thing that made it so terrifying…

By suddenly giving explanations and a reason for this that and the other based around earth examples, the creature stops being scary on a psychological level and simply becomes a predictable monster. Aliens didnt treat the creature badly, but it certainly started that slide from a scary thing to a simple easy to handle critter…

Using a different franchise as an example, The Borg in Star Trek were a pretty scary and relentless villain to start with. You couldnt reason with it, you couldnt stop it, its motives were almost a complete mystery and in the end they were pure alien malevolence just like the Alien in the first film… until along comes the movie and killing off drone after drone is no longer going to be enough and so Hey Presto we have a Queen so we have a bad guy which allows us as an audience to put a face on the enemy and give the good guys a single target to beat to win the day.

10

There was no way the series could have progressed without adding some sort of explanation for the lifecycle. Anything else would have been retreading the first film. I do agree that the mystery of the creature was terrifying and effective; I certainly spent enough time pondering it as a nine year old. But I wasn’t let down by Cameron’s evolvement. (Is that a word?) Besides, the alien queen is one of the coolest creatures in cinema history.
For more Alien excitement, check out http://www.probotproductions.com/alien5squared.html It’s an unofficial Alien sequel done entirely with action figures.

11

The ideas in Aliens get expounded upon in Alien3 (and even 4), where the Alien is essentially infinitely adaptable. It’s lifecycle changes as its needs change for survival. This was one of the conceptual highlights of the last film, where the scientists are marvelling over the creature as a specimin of pure evolutionary will. None of this was necessarily part of the first film, but all of it logically springs from the first one which is what makes the whole series enjoyable.

I’ll defend Alien3 to the end though, even though it wasn’t released as the film Fincher wanted to make and wasn’t properly planned or constructed. The basic premise of ending the series with Ripley having to make the ultimate sacrifice because her life is tied to the Alien is a beautiful idea that was handled well until the bad shot of her doing the reverse swan dive into the furnace. Killing off the characters from Aliens was essential to bringing the story around–Ripley IS the Alien franchise, and it’s her burden to bare to make sure the Alien is extinquished. Having a Marine around with a gun would have negated that very important existential struggle. Killing off Ripley’s hope in the form of Newt is what makes the whole movie tragic–that Ripley has to go on without any hope or comfort and is able to project towards her own end.

All of that was not completely scrapped with the fourth installment, and in fact the idea that the Alien and Ripley come back together kind of reinforces it, but I still could have done without that film altogether. It should have been Call’s movie; a much more interesting fable where the self-actualized robot is the most human character.

12

I for one find the ending of Alien 3 incredibly hopeful. Ripley finally gains control over and defeats the evil that has taken everything from her and dominated her life. In the end, she is free.

Of course, the fans would rather have her hounded by aliens for the rest of her life…

13

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Dickson I for one find the ending of Alien 3 incredibly hopeful. Ripley finally gains control over and defeats the evil that has taken everything from her and dominated her life. In the end, she is free.

After her first encounter she is haunted by these nameless things for the rest of her life, is eventually infected, or infested, or whatever, by them, and dies trying to keep them from humanity in general. I dunno, I think it’s a bit of a stretch to call her eventual fate ‘hopeful’. How about ‘peaceful’ instead, in that she finally finds peace in her struggle?

14

I’ve never gotten the love for the first film. A triumph of production design to be sure, but the film is so hollow and emotionless that I’ve never been able to connect to it. I also never understand those who say the film is rich in characters, which for me have never been anything more than fool-mouthed archtypes.

I don’t give a shit what happens to Brett or Captain Dallas. Whatever feeling I have for them is because of who’s playing them. The one character I like in the film is Parker, and again it isn’t so much that he’s a cool character as it is that Yaphet Kotto is a cool character.

Ridley Scott loves to say that the film is slow on purpose, that it’s okay because of all the visual information you’re getting. This is partically true I suppose. But the fact remains that it takes nearly an hour to get going and the design grows less interesting the more he lingers on it.

I’m not saying it’s a bad film, it’s not. But I wouldn’t call it a masterpiece as many do. Outside of the Giger design and the chestbuster…I don’t think it would have become as legendary as it has.

Cameron tops the film. Every signature scene or moment from Scott’s film is repeated and done better. Right down to the ‘cornbread’ line at the breakfast table. I’ll never forget seeing Alien on the big screen during the SE release and finally hearing Kotto argue to Harry Dean Stanton about the Nostromo’s cornbread. My immediate reaction was ‘Holy shit…Cameron used that too!’

The marines are archtypes as well for the most part. However once most are killed off we’re left with the more complex ones…Hicks, Bishop. There’s a reason fans are still pissed at how Fincher and Weaver killed them off some twelve years later.

I love the paradox thematic of how technology is supposedly failing the marines, the old Vietnam alagory…only to have the same technology redeem itself in the final act. That’s funny.

I could go on. I won’t since I fully expect someone to come charging in here calling me a Cameron Worshipper as per usual.

To me it is just the superior film. More emotional. More exciting, thrilling. Better creature effects. Better characters and story.

Alien 3…I guess I’ve gotten over the opening, which if nothing else is well put together. I also love the ending, the final moments and how they handled them. But my favorite scene is the funeral one, which is simply beautiful in execution.

Alien Resurrection sucks ass, always did starting with that piece of shit ‘isn’t it clever’ script by Joss Whedon. He introduces a potentially great idea - the hybrid alien/Ripleys - and proceeds to do jack shit with them. Not to mention the characters are a grab bag of standard alien series favorites.

That film was fucked long before Jeunet stepped up.

As for AVP…I like it for what it is, bullshit entertainment. A popcorn movie. I’d rather watch it than Predator 2, I like it a whole lot better than Alien 3 or Resurrection.

And there you go. Flame on…

15

ALIEN : Ghost story in space. Simple, elegant, wonderfully executed. Amazing ensemble, and great performances. I think that my favorite aspect of Alien is the portrayal of the future as a diryt and realistic place that still requires manual labor. No ray guns, no teleporting, no light speed. Really creates the atmosphere.

ALIENS : My favorite all-time movie, period. I think that James Cameron makes nothing but love stories, and this one is the strongest due to the various relationships formed with Ripley/dead daughter, Ripley/Newt, and Ripley/Hicks (director’s cut). The action is still unparalleled, and the attention to detail in the sets, costuming, special effects, etc, is almost a primer on how to make an action/sci-fi/horror movie. I think that it also shows how good a job he did in creating characters that we can identify with when there is so much backlash to Fincher for killing them off. We grew attached. Hell, Hudson is Paxton’s most recognizable role!

ALIEN3 : I am a huge Fincher fan, and this movie grew on me. I felt like I had been slapped around in the theater in 92. My hero was dead (Hicks), our foil was dead (Bishop), the innocent one was dead (Newt), and the heroine was dead (Ripley). Whew. But, a very strong film, and all of these deaths are necessary in a tragedy such as this. Look at Romeo & Juliet. Now, don’t take me wrong - this is not Shakespeare, but it is good. What I think I liked most about Alien3 is the fact that it is a different direction than the others. It is similiar to Alien, but only due to fact that there is only 1 alien running around. The themes are different, the look is WAY different (Fincher apparently shoots through a shit-filter), and the sense of dread is SOO much more pronounced. By the time Ripley is killing herself, you know it’s the ONLY way that it could end.

ALIEN: RESURRECTION : This movie felt like a hastily-put-together graphic novel. It never really gels together. I think that it has some of the most beautiful imagery in the whole series, but the director is known for his visuals. I enjoy the scene under the water in the kitchen, and the concept of the military buying humans to experiment on is creepy. With the others in the series, though, the material demands more than this film can deliver.

AVP : As far as I’m concerned, this is not part of the canon.

There’s my .02. I never post stuff like this, and I sure would like to hear some opinons regarding mine.

LATER

“What the hell are we supposed to use, man, harsh language?!?”

16

The Alien franchise NEEDS a final chapter…after Resurrection things are just left floating.

Unfortunately that also means Weaver; her charactor has been seriously mangled over the past 2 films (partly down to her as producer)…but we need to see the saga between alien and Ellen Ripley come to a close.

The franchise could of course continue…and should…but the Ripley arc should end.

Cue loads of ‘the Alien franchise ended after ‘Aliens’’ type posts.

17

AVP makes more sense continuality wise than Resurrection.

Which for me means that Ripley’s saga ended with her heroic sacrifice in Alien 3.

18

Like Alien and Aliens. Alien3…

…of course Newt couldn’t come back, if she was in hypersleep over that time, then she would of aged very little. Too bad the actress went through puberty and looked a little different. So thats the reason she couldn’t be in Alien3.

Didn’t the guy who played Hicks also wanted a quite a bit of money?

Yes, I’d like to see the original Fincher cut. I still hate Ressercution, and after I saw it, I wrote my own Alien5 storyline that undoes Alien 4 and if I want to, Alien3. It envolves all the characters, and reasons for their age differences. Yes its the ORIGNAL Ripley. Not some clone. It’s very much in vain of the first film.

19

Alien is a horror film first. It’s got the mood, the atmosphere, the pacing, the unknown enemy, the confined spaces… it just works so damn well. As sci-fi it’s still one of the greats, *almost* on par with 2001 and Star Wars… over 25 years and it still looks good. It’s effective, timeless, a legit classic.

Aliens… I can’t distinguish Aliens from the rest of Cameron’s career, and like some people have outgrown Star Wars, I’ve completely outgrown Cameron.
You know when you watch something you liked as a kid but with adult eyes (like Dukes of Hazzard) and you wonder what you were thinking? That’s James Cameron’s career for me. He’s akin to Stephin King, I like the ideas, but I don’t enjoy the completed works. I don’t like the Terminator movies, True Lies is horrendous, Titanic was pap, the Abyss was sleep inducing…
I like all the ideas of Aliens, I like all the scenarios but the film just doesn’t work for me. I’d have to watch it again to go into specifics about what I don’t like, and I’m not doing that any time soon.
Send me your vitriol…

Alien3. I like. Always have. As great as the first one was, the characters in 3 were the most interesting… the best developed. It’s a smaller film than what came before it and it stands on its own.

Resurrection. Goddamn is it pretty to look at, but aside from that the film is unbearable.

AvP. Disposable. Not as bad as Resurrection but it missed out on two great opportunities to explore the Predator race further and to explore an alien hive further. It brought nothing new to either franchise.

Aside from the first Alien though, there are a bunch of Alien comics that Dark Horse put out that I’d turn to for my Alien fix before the films.

20

Making another Alien film is a risk I think no one should take. Even if it turned out good it would still be far, far removed from the two good films by two shitty ones. It couldn’t hope to salvage the series’ integrity and besides, five films in any franchise is overkill.

Alien is a horror masterpiece, a haunted house movie in space. It goes by the Jaws principle of less is more, and is all about pure atmosphere: the shadows, the dripping water, the low hum of the ship. The sight, the sound, the smell of fear on that lonely vessel. In space, no one can hear you scream. It’s poetry.

Aliens is a spectacular action movie, a refreshingly different sequel which never disrespects its predecessor. Cameron finds a way to make the creature a more visible threat without cheapening it as a villain. He also introduces the queen, in one heart-stopping scene which is more terrifying than anything in the first film. What in my opinion separates Cameron’s movie from the greatness of Ridley Scott’s are the marines, who lighten the mood in a way that Scott never did. I love them, but there is a hint of cheese in their banter which can sometimes be grating. I also feel that, like Cameron’s other movies, Aliens has limited rewatchability. I’ll probably buy the DVD at some point though. Aliens is great.

I do agree with Django about the opening of Alien3. Were it a better film, killing off Hicks, Newt and Bishop might have been a brave decision. But Alien3 is a mess, and as such Fincher shits all over Aliens and rubs James Cameron’s face in it. Who wants to see Bishop dying in a pile of garbage, covered in slime? I like the gloomy mood Fincher was trying to create, but Alien3 is a failure. I don’t even need to see the extended cut because I know it can’t be fixed.

As for Alien Resurrection, all I can say about it is that it has completely faded from memory. I intend to keep it that way.

The world doesn’t need five Alien movies.