In a just and righteous world, one that made some sort of sense to me, those Tea Party buffoons would be out in force protesting against shit like this. Instead, once again, we have everything ass backwards because certain interests have pegged certain issues/demographics/people as detrimental to traditional economic and power structures. And we’re supposed to better than the rest of the world how?
We’re a nation of fearful hypocrites waiting to be manipulated en masse for the benefit of interests beyond our own. So kudos to Arizona for living up to the real American Dream: Arresting the brown people because you’re afraid of losing an illusionary grip over the control of a nation founded on the same terms you’re currently railing against.
So what are the odds that some deluded Birther or oathkeeper, who has a daytime job as cop, does attempt to arrest President Obama during his next Arizona gig, for not being able to show his birth certificate and thereby being illegal in Arizona?
Would the secret service be allowed to shoot that guy in the attempt?
And here is how Rasmussen polled on the question: Do you favor or oppose legislation that authorizes local police to stop and verify the immigration status of anyone they suspect of being an illegal immigrant? Granted, there are some ambiguities about what the law actually does. And coming up with the appropriate poll wording for complex questions like these is never easy. But Rasmussen’s portrayal of the law is very gentle. There’s no mention of the provisions that liberals and civil libertarians find most odious: that the law would charge legal immigrants with trespassing for failure to carry documentation papers (although – note – this is already required under federal law); that it would give law enforcement officers new powers of detention (rather than mere "verification"Wink; that it would allow officers, without a warrant, to arrest people who they suspected might be guilty of offenses that could lead to deportation, and that it would prohibit certain types of work-for-hire involving moving vehicles. The Rasmussen poll says that 60 percent of Americans (and 70 percent of Arizonans) favor the new law, but how would those numbers change if people were read a longer or more complete description of the measure? Since there’s been no other polling on the subject, we have no idea. It wouldn’t shock me if the law indeed proved to be popular, especially in Arizona, if a fuller description were read. (Liberals, who uniformly seem to think that the law will be unpopular with certain key demographic groups, are a bit too sanguine about this). But this poll is so simplistic as to provide very little informational value. To their credit, Rasmussen later asked people whether they were concerned that “efforts to identify and deport illegal immigrants will also end up violating the civil rights of some U.S. citizens”; 58 percent said they were in fact somewhat or very concerned. But that finding did not get their lede, nor was that concern expressed relative to Arizona’s law itself. And in general, this poll seems to be emblematic of a commercial polling industry that gravitates toward surveys that are about a mile wide and an inch deep. That approach might be perfectly fine for horse-race (election) polling, where many of the “non-traditional” pollsters (including Rasmussen) do just fine. Polling on policy issues, however – particularly policy issues like a new state law on which the public is liable to have limited familiarity – ought to inspire more thought and more finesse.
Originally Posted by JanView Post So what are the odds that some deluded Birther or oathkeeper, who has a daytime job as cop, does attempt to arrest President Obama during his next Arizona gig, for not being able to show his birth certificate and thereby being illegal in Arizona? Would the secret service be allowed to shoot that guy in the attempt?
I’m sure our theoretical Birther would live to tell about it, provided he hits the ground and puts his hands over his head the first time the Secret Service quick-draw and scream at him.
Geez, every time I hear someone say, “Well, if you have all your papers and have done nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about,” I want to claw their eyes out.
Ya know, I kinda dismiss most folks when they complain about “Godwin” elements in a political thread. Mostly because it’s become almost as knee-jerk to bitch about it as it is to label something Nazi-esque.
Now here we have the perfect example of the “how it all gets away from you” principle in history. Nobody believes that shit like this can get past the “I can’t believe they’re even discussing shit like this!” phase. Why? 'Cause we’re Americans, dammit! Seperating niggers into their own units while claiming the moral high ground over arrogant krauts and jap monkeys was just part of the price of liberty, apparently.
Well, all the internet chatter, all the Daily Show commentaries, all the profound blog posts, all the assumptions of reason have proven what? It can still happen. It has happened. And you know what? Folks are still just sitting there going “This can’t happen here!” Hey asswipe, it just did!
By the way, this is exactly the thing I tried to caution ElCapitan about in the mAnn Coulter thread. Now, for him, his country has 49 states and one passport-required protectorate.
Originally Posted by Richard DicksonView Post Wouldn’t, I don’t know, ACTUALLY BEING FUCKING ELECTED AND SWORN IN prove he meets the requirements?
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Originally Posted by soylentgreenView Post Never underestimate the nefarious potential of red tape bureaucracy. When I went to renew my driver’s license, my prior one was not good enough proof of who I was…even though it was my PRIMARY FORM OF LEGAL IDENTIFICATION ISSUED BY THE DMV THEMSELVES!
Same thing happened to me when I went in to change my address.
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Originally Posted by Bancroft AgeeView Post We are a nation of fucking immigrants! Do people not get this shit?
I’ve got no problem with immigrants. I just want them to pay taxes like the rest of us. This statement comes on the heels of just owing Uncle Sam $1100 a week or so back.
From what I keep hearing though… a lot keep saying that it will pretty much be “business as usual” in Arizona. Only now, there’s more legal protection surrounding the way assholes like Sheriff Joe like to do things?
I’ve got no problem with immigrants. I just want them to pay taxes like the rest of us. This statement comes on the heels of just owing Uncle Sam $1100 a week or so back.
Originally Posted by Pompoussory EstoppelView Post Don’t a lot of illegals pay into Social Security?
If they’re the ones who get fake documents, they pay a lot of shit. Pretty much the same as everyone else, only they never get to take it back (i.e. tax returns, etc.)
Originally Posted by DARKMITE8View Post I’ve got no problem with immigrants. I just want them to pay taxes like the rest of us. This statement comes on the heels of just owing Uncle Sam $1100 a week or so back.
Immigrants pay taxes. I don’t think they’re all driving back to Juarez or La Paz and buying groceries or cars. Doubtful that many of them would be paying in anyway. If anything, they’d probably be eligible for as much tax relief as your average working class family.
And if anyone caught McCain this morning he was spinning this shit hardcore into being about “drugs” and the “cartels” in Mexico. Does anyone with the ability to be rational actually buy bullshit like that? I just want to know ahead of time so I can save the hassle and go straight to me knowing you’re a moron instead of the whole “getting to know you” phase.
They’re never going to understand that legalizing lesser drugs like marijuana would totally nix all this “cartel” business they’re having so much trouble with, are they?
I mean, they’ll just move on to the bigger stuff like cocaine and heroin, but it’s a smaller pool to fish in at least. Of course, you could be really bold and legalize all of it and… poof. No more drug cartels. Problem solved. New (and less deadly) problem in place.
I have alot to say about this story, but the fact of the matter is that it’s so frightening and it makes me so angry that I don’t think I can contribute constructively without typing in all caps
Instead I’ll just say that this is fascism and needs to be crushed, ASAP. As an American, and an Irish American to boot, I have little patience for those who want to play the immigrant blame game.
For the record: It’s not a black and white issue and I actually support English as the national language (I think it’s important for every American citizen, from any walk of life, to be able to walk up to another and have a conversation. A shared language is important for national identity and to prevent ghettoization for certain ethnic groups)
But yeah, to quote the late great 'Vin Costner, “When it looks like it, smells like it and sounds like it, you call it what it is: Fascism!”
“WTF, Arizona?”
Plus, how do law and order types think it’s a good idea to rob the police of the ability to make judgement calls as to who is and is not important to pay attention to? The cartel must be loving this, because now the attention that the police might otherwise pay one of their operatives will be divided among every Hispanic person in Arizona.
PPS And the law was written by white supremacist neo nazis, as I learned last night on Ms Maddow’s Prime Time News Hour..
Originally Posted by joeypantsView Post They’re never going to understand that legalizing lesser drugs like marijuana would totally nix all this “cartel” business they’re having so much trouble with, are they? I mean, they’ll just move on to the bigger stuff like cocaine and heroin, but it’s a smaller pool to fish in at least. Of course, you could be really bold and legalize all of it and… poof. No more drug cartels. Problem solved. New (and less deadly) problem in place.
That would make too much sense. What would the prison lobby do? They might actually have to get real fucking jobs. What value does a lobbyist have in a society where people actually don’t fall for bullshit! Oh, the horror…next thing you know we might have real health care options and no illegal immigration problem! THINK ABOUT THE CHILDREN!!!
I think the thing they fear the most about legalization is that suddenly the cartels that have been built up as this great boogeyman would suddenly become legitimate businesses.