Tracked down THE KEEP on EBAY - paid about $15 and kicked myself for it. Going to sell it.
I am a huge fan of his films but that one was a real turd.
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| Originally Posted by Dragon Ma I haven’t seen LOTM in sometime but the one thing I do remember is the score, man, what a beautiful score that was, especially the main theme. |
Trevor Jones and Randy Edelman. I don’t think it was a collaboration though like Zimmer/Howard. The pieces they each composed are very distinct, but yes, it is a masterful score, especially at the end. The extended cut also wisely cuts out an Enya song over those last 20 minutes and replace it with their score.
That’s another element of Mann to love, the use of music. “God Moving Over the Face of the Water” is my favorite use of music in film ever. I just adore that scene, it just washes over me after investing 3 hours in the film. “The Insider” and the Gerrard Biourke stuff just gets more impressive every time I see it.
I bought the Heat soundtrack just for that closing credits theme alone. The whole soundtrack on it’s own is a real piece of work. Amazing. The Insider soundtrack is awsome as well. Mann is probably one of a very few directors today who can produce one hell of a soundtrack for their films.
What I love about the music in HEAT is that great piece that is played during the bank heist and then as soon as Kilmer opens fire at Wes Studi the music shuts off for the entire sequence until DeNiro gets away, I think the temptation would have been too great for a lot of directors to shoot that sequence with a lot music which would have hurt the realism.
Agreed. “Force Marker” is the great piece playing over the bank heist and I agree, the way the music drops out is perfection. Along with “Steel Cello Lament”, Elliot Goldenthal did some really great and inventive work on the film, that I think went largely underappreciated. It’s a very offbeat score, not manipulative at all, with no real real “movie music” structure. As previously mentioned, the inclusion of Moby is my favorite, but the U2 tracks are nice too.
I’ll add in some “Ali” love there too. I love the opening fight, which has no music for 90% of it. But when the tide of the fight starts to turn, and with one nice punch specifically, Mann lets the music creep in, another Moby track “My Weakness” I believe. It sounds great.
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| Originally Posted by Stew I don’t think it was a collaboration though like Zimmer/Howard. |
You’re right. The story goes that Jones spotted what he felt should be scored, scored it, and when Mann wanted more, Jones either didn’t have time or, as some accounts go, simply refused. That old stand-by, “Creative Differences.” So they hired Edelman for pick-ups. It’s a shame really, because Jones’ music fits the visuals like a glove and Edelman’s, well, doesn’t.
Thanks, I agree, and that clears it up a bit. It’s a little unfortunate, Jones’s portions are so majestic and perfect, such amazing pieces of music. Pretty much anything you hear that sticks with you is his work, whereas whenever there’s just filler music playing, it’s Edelman’s. Which is a shame because saying it like that sounds like a disservice to him, but it’s really not. Edelman is a fantastic composer who has done some very famous themes, but for LOTM, he was pretty unnecessary.
Seconding the affection for ALI, which strikes me as one of Mann’s most ambitious films. I think a lot of people were expecting a ROCKY-style piece of uplift and were perplexed or disappointed when Mann viewed events such as the civil rights movement and the Vietnam war through the prism of the Cassius Clay/Muhammad Ali story.
The ‘curriculums’ that Mann regularly puts his actors through - including physical training and psychological research - really served Will Smith well (when I interviewed Smith for the film, he was full of praise for the preparation Mann had him undertake), and he really rose to the challenge of portraying an iconic personality like Ali. In fact, there are great performances across the board here.
And for those viewers searching for inspirational moments, Ali running through the streets of Zaire as he trains for the Rumble in the Jungle, and stopping in amazement when he sees murals depicting him as an all-conquering hero, is as good as it gets.
Mann goes further than just making an Ali biography, he accentuates why he mattered. He was a boxer, but he was also a lightning rod in turbulent times because as Howard Cosell said, “They’re coming after you. They’re scared of black militants. Those others are just political, you are the heavyweight champion of the world!”
They did a good job showing his opposition to the war, which was really not partisan or ideological, but just a gut feeling. And I love how they really wove him into the world at large, especially with Malcolm X, who has some of the best scenes of the film.
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| Originally Posted by Subotai Chingachgook wields a Delaware Tomahawk, definitely an awesome weapon that invariably winds its way onto CHUD lists of best killing tools. |
Coolest thing ever to come out of Delaware? I don’t think there can really be any argument.
One of my absolute fave scenes encapsulating everything I love about Mann’s films is the subway sequence in COLLATERAL. Right when Jamie Foxx and Jada Pinkett’s characters leave the elevator, the music ignites with visceral, driving punch, all the while Mann’s camera is shooting both actors running in an almost dance-like pattern, complementing the score’s rhythm and tension.
Ok, what was the song used at the beginning of Ali when Ali starts to and then does win the fight? It’s also played in the end credits about halfway through. Who’s it done by and where can I get it? I don’t think it’s on the soundtrack.
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| Originally Posted by RathBandu [I’ve mentioned the implication that Pacino’s Vincent Hanna might be the one who brought down James Caan’s Frank (from Thief) elsewhere as well.] |
I think you might be right because after watching Heat again today I noticed about halfway through, when McCauley and Nate are talking in a car, Nate says this about Hanna:
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| “He’s taken down some heavy crews. He blew away Frankie in Chicago.” |
So I guess that’s it. Hanna took Frank down.
And does anyone know the answer to my question above? Please?!
I’m pretty sure that’s somebody doing Sam Cooke’s “A Change Is Gonna Come.” I think Al Green.
I meant the score part. I found it at Amazon.com. I wasn’t aware there was a score only CD (I’ve only ever seen the Various Artists CD). It’s called “Set Me Free” by Dungeon East & Whild Peach.
The period detail in LOTM is incredible (like the formal military courtesys exchanged between the French and the British at the fort’s surrender ).As a black powder enthusiast,I still lust after Killdeer, Hawkeye’s rifle.
Heat is Mann’s best work, though. I agree he has captured how LA looks better then any other Director.
The only one his films I have seen I would not give an A to is "ALI’,and that would be a solid B.
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| Originally Posted by IndianSummerSky One of my absolute fave scenes encapsulating everything I love about Mann’s films is the subway sequence in COLLATERAL. Right when Jamie Foxx and Jada Pinkett’s characters leave the elevator, the music ignites with visceral, driving punch, all the while Mann’s camera is shooting both actors running in an almost dance-like pattern, complementing the score’s rhythm and tension. |
That’s a good one. Mine is probably in Heat when DeNiro says so long to Voight, and the drive through the tunnel afterwards.
That’s my beef with people who complain about Heat’s length - those are the kinds of scenes which would get clipped.
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| Originally Posted by dudalb The period detail in LOTM is incredible (like the formal military courtesys exchanged between the French and the British at the fort’s surrender ).As a black powder enthusiast,I still lust after Killdeer, Hawkeye’s rifle. |
I wonder what happened to that gun.
Reading about Day-Lewis’ training for the films is interesting stuff…Michael Mann, from the above website:
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| We did a lot of research and there’s been a big training program on the film. Daniel Day-Lewis and some others trained down in Alabama with David Webster. Daniel is very impressive. Starting with contemporary weapons and working his way back to black powder, he became a staggering shot. After a day and a half, he was knocking everything down with a .45. There are a lot of aspects to that training that are designed to give him the skills he needs to feel as Hawkeye - as well as being able to perform them. But the real value transcends anything physical and really feeds back into something attitudinal. |
Sort of olympic training, he would have to sprint a certain distance, then fire at a target.
The physical training Mann gives to his actors is unmatched. Will Smith moved like Ali, Tom Cruiseand his efficient killing moves in “Collateral”. Day-Lewis did what we do in the infantry, a stress shoot, which is damn good training and pretty intense for an actorto do I’d think. But its that extra level of realism that just gives them the confidence to be brilliant. Its like on the “Heat” SE where Kilmer talks about a Marine who told him that in basic the drill sergeant made special attention to Kilmer’s gunfight magazine change. Carrying an M16 every single day, I can tell you, theyare all indeed damn good and trained on that weapon. It’s amazing.
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| Originally Posted by Subotai I wonder what happened to that gun. . |
I would bet quite a bit of money that is currently hanging on the wall of either Mann’s or Day Lewis’s home.
You don’t let a beautiful piece of work like that get taken home by some prop guy.
Or, since I am sure then had a couple made in case one was damaged, both Mann and Lewis got one.