Pledge Ruled Unconstitutional

we gotta start removing “In God We Trust” from all our dolla’ bills.

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Pledge Ruled Unconstitutional
Wed Jun 26, 2:52 PM ET
By DAVID KRAVETS, Associated Press Writer

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) - For the first time ever, a federal appeals court declared the Pledge of Allegiance unconstitutional Wednesday because of the words “under God” added by Congress in 1954.

The 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ( news - web sites) said the phrase amounts to a government endorsement of religion in violation of the Constitution’s Establishment Clause, which requires a separation of church and state.

“A profession that we are a nation under God' is identical, for Establishment Clause purposes, to a profession that we are a nation under Jesus,’ a nation under Vishnu,' a nation under Zeus,’ or a nation `under no god,’ because none of these professions can be neutral with respect to religion,” Judge Alfred T. Goodwin wrote for the three-judge panel.

The appeals said that when President Eisenhower signed the legislation inserting “under God” after the words “one nation,” he wrote that “millions of our schoolchildren will daily proclaim in every city and town, every village and rural schoolhouse, the dedication of our nation and our people to the Almighty.”

The court noted that the U.S. Supreme Court ( news - web sites) has said students cannot hold religious invocations at graduations and cannot be compelled to recite the pledge. But when the pledge is recited in a classroom, a student who objects is confronted with an “unacceptable choice between participating and protesting,” the appeals court said.

“Although students cannot be forced to participate in recitation of the pledge, the school district is nonetheless conveying a message of state endorsement of a religious belief when it requires public school teachers to recite, and lead the recitation of, the current form of the pledge,” the court said.

The case was brought by Michael A. Newdow, a Sacramento atheist who objected because his second-grade daughter was required to recite the pledge at the Elk Grove school district. A federal judge dismissed his lawsuit, but the 9th Circuit ordered that the case proceed to trial.

“I’m an American citizen. I don’t like my rights infringed upon by my government,” he said in an interview. Newdow called the pledge a “religious idea that certain people don’t agree with.”

The government had argued that the religious content of “one nation under God” is minimal.

But the appeals court said that an atheist or a holder of certain non-Judeo-Christian beliefs could see it as an attempt to “enforce a `religious orthodoxy’ of monotheism.”

Now i’m not a religious guy much, but I was raised saying the pledge and have no problem saying it now. Anyone who feels threatened by the words “under God” quite frankly needs to get their head examined. Hell, i’m threatened by the words “Carrot Top”, should we have him executed?

Quote:

Rhinestone Cowboy: Hell, i’m threatened by the words “Carrot Top”, should we have him executed?

Wait, I’m confused.

You mean this wouldn’t be a good idea?

the bitch is these people don’t feel “threatened” using dollar bills that say “In God We Trust.”

In fact, I’ve never heard anyone complain about it.

Quote:

nelson: the bitch is these people don’t feel “threatened” using dollar bills that say “In God We Trust.” In fact, I’ve never heard anyone complain about it.

Nelson, I could not agree with you more

Quote:

nelson: the bitch is these people don’t feel “threatened” using dollar bills that say “In God We Trust.” In fact, I’ve never heard anyone complain about it.

Because giving a dollar bill to someone is not a proclamation of belief in the same way that saying “I pledge my allegiance to a country ruled over and defined by something I don’t believe in” is.

So one would be effectively lying, just as an atheist is essentially being asked to lie when being sworn in during a court case.

If you’re a believer, it’s cool. Also, if you’re a liar, it’s cool. However, if you’re a non-believer and a non-liar, it’s kind of a bummer.

If you’re a believer or a liar, you probably have no right to criticize.

It’s not a matter of being “threatened”.

It simply recognizes the fact that not all Americans worship a freakin’ deity.

Pledging allegiance to your country and pledging allegiance to your god should be two separate things.

But this is going to produce a shitstorm of controversy, I imagine. The polls on CNN show what we all already know, most Americans worship an invisible being and assume this is part of the vast liberal conspiracy to recruit their children into homosexuality and communism.

Quote:

AndYouWillKnowUs bytheTrailof DaveB: So one would be effectively lying, just as an atheist is essentially being asked to lie when being sworn in during a court case.

Actually, in many (enlightened) states there exists a secular swearing-in oath, that doesn’t require faith in the bible or Jesus or Yahweh or Imhotep…

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Jacob Singer [QBActually, in many (enlightened) states there exists a secular swearing-in oath, that doesn’t require faith in the bible or Jesus or Yahweh or Imhotep…[/QB]

I wouldn’t call Montana “enlightened”, but as far as I know, even we have cut out the “so help you God” part on the oath. Whatever.

Lawsuits like this one make my ass tired.

This is one of the greatest days in recent American history. And now let the bashing from the media commence! FAUX news is acting like the court just shot their grandmothers, their host is suggesting that this is “un-american” and have showed just how fair and balanced they are by lobbing off phone calls from Jerry Falwell and someone from The Heritage Foundation. On CNN, the entire talkbalk live audience is shaking their heads and poo-pooing the man who didn’t want his daughter to be subjected to the pledge.

Here is the reality, kids are NOT forced to say the pledge of allegiance. However, kids that do not say it are “weird kids”. I remember from elementary school that the teachers tell the kids to stand up and recite the pledge. There is no one telling the children that they have a choice. I also remember the Witness children that didn’t say the pledge or celenrate the holidays. They were made fun of and had to put up with a lot of crap, and that isn’t right.

This was not a divisive topic until the courts inserted “Under God” into the pledge in 1954, after being pressured by McCarthyism and the religious-right. America is NOT brought together by proclaiming a love for an imaginary old man who lives in the sky. America is united by a spirit of love for our neighbors, compassion, and our common freedoms.

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U2Shark [QB]America is NOT brought together by proclaiming a love for an imaginary old man who lives in the sky.QB]

So I guess some of us (about 75% of the American population) are delusional?

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I’m having a ball with this, so I’ve re-written the POA:

I pledge allegiance…

…to the Flag of the Untied States of America. And to the Godless Republic for which It stands, barely one-half a Nation, under absolutely no acknowledgment of a Sumpreme Being whatsoever, very divisible, with Liberty and Justice for all practicing atheists, and persecution for anyone practicing religion.

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nelson: I’m having a ball with this, so I’ve re-written the POA: I pledge allegiance… …to the Flag of the Untied States of America. And to the Godless Republic for which It stands, barely one-half a Nation, under absolutely no acknowledgment of a Sumpreme Being whatsoever, very divisible, with Liberty and Justice for all practicing atheists, and persecution for anyone practicing religion.

Or, of course, it could sensibly be made to not exclude anyone because of their beliefs.

Naw, that would be stupid.

Actually, Jack is right. What’s the point in reciting something you don’t fully comprehend, anyway? Rote memorization doesn’t really mean a thing.

I don’t understand why people think God should be in the pledge in the first place. Can someone explain that first?

Quote:

nelson: Quote:

“But madness is rare only among individuals. It is quite common in entire nations.” Edward N. Luttwak

CNN answered my query:
“To recite the pledge is not to describe the United States; instead it is to swear allegiance to the values for which the flag stands: unity, indivisibility, liberty, justice and – since 1954 – monotheism.”

The phrase was added in 1954 through legislation signed by President Eisenhower. The appeals court noted that Eisenhower wrote then that “millions of our schoolchildren will daily proclaim in every city and town, every village and rural schoolhouse, the dedication of our nation and our people to the Almighty.”

That’s mighty fucking suspect, people. How did this one last so long? BLATANTLY unconstitutional.

I think I have to agree with Devin.

I’ve always thought that God should be nowhere near ANYTHING that’s related to government. What place does anything religious have there?

I’ve always reasoned that there are many people who either do not believe in God, or who do not worship the God that many others do. Well, when you say “Under God” I guess that the God you are referring to can be your own God, but still…it never rang right.

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The Lord God: That’s mighty fucking suspect, people. How did this one last so long? BLATANTLY unconstitutional.

It’s great that we’re noticing this now. I think it’s because we have responsible adults teaching our children real and honest-to-goodness values and morals, such as TOLERANCE and TRUE EQUALITY for all citizens of the United States – a land that honors and respects free speech and freedom of religion.

Yet, for some reason, why do I suspect many people will call me un-American? Jabba, I’m waiting for you just so I can say, “You don’t understand me!” wink

[Freaking edited “intolerace” to “tolerance” – you’re to blame jabba!!!]

Again, Verbal, you amaze me. Proves my theory even further…