No
For the sake of ‘clarity’, it’s understandable to edit out the ‘less brazen’ instances of catcalling and wolf-whistling. But it does have the potential to give certain groups an ‘out’ by giving them an opportunity to derail from the legit point the video makes.
So it doesn’t even need to be an insidious editing job for it to be a problem in the dialogue it causes. It makes it easier to generalize this as a black and Latino problem more than a problem with men in general.
Not sure, I can’t really tell to be honest. I get the feeling this is worst in big cities, and when I lived in one was in Latin America, where the standards for sexual harassment are much lower than here … that’s just a fact. (ex: In Colombia they still send out resumes with pictures, making it easy to discriminate against women based on looks)
Korea is the same way.
A very normalized culture of plastic surgery there…
There is a part of my mind combatting that urge to think as ElCapitan does: that certain cultures are more inclined to indulge in this behavior. But I think it’s really more of an issue of how casually brazen that behavior is delivered in media. And I’m certainly not immune to being affected by that over a lifetime of consuming said media.
It makes me think that everyone else who isn’t black or Latino men are simply more subtle/sneaky/passive-aggressive about it. Doesn’t make it any worse or better. It just makes it less likely for it to be included in a video pointing out that behavior.
Then there’s the fact that I saw this behavior play out in real life as I worked a counter at a convenience store. And unfortunately, my own confirmation biases at the time certainly played a part in seeing that behavior play out a lot like representation of that video.
A[quote name=“ElCapitanAmerica” url=“/community/t/150432/misogyny-and-the-discrimination-and-abuse-of-women-here-and-around-the-world#post_3795872”]Is it possible that the intensity/frequency of catcalling is culturally based?
I don’t know the answer, but I know in Latin America the situation is horrible. I got a tour of the equivalent of “congress” in Panama, by a member of the diplomatic corps, and she was harassed while giving us the tour by co-workers at least 2-3 times. It was to the point that one guy was trying to setup a date with her that night, I had to stop the tour and ask her if she was OK, and all she told me was that she was used to it and couldn’t complain to her bosses about it.
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Depends on what one means by “culture”. It’s more subcultural and not anything to do with race. You put any three guys in a certain environment and they’ll probably come out three different ways depending on how they allow said environment to inform them. I have three brothers, all of whom are straight and into sports and drinking and music I do not personally listen to. Yet, they are all profoundly different in temperament and treat women differently from one another.* Also, none of them approach women in as tacky a fashion as seen in the video.
*We all grew up under an emotionally and physically abusive father and wear those scars differently, some of us better than the other.
A[quote name=“Jmurdoch” url=“/community/t/150432/misogyny-and-the-discrimination-and-abuse-of-women-here-and-around-the-world#post_3690745”]It really is an important issue that should be discussed more. Studies have shown that the main factor in controlling population growth, is education of young females. Humanities growing numbers present the biggest threat to the quality of life on the planet. More educated women leads to a better future of everyone.
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[quote name=“Judas Booth” url=“/community/t/150432/misogyny-and-the-discrimination-and-abuse-of-women-here-and-around-the-world#post_3690757”]We’ll never have gender equality when so many of the world’s religions actively force females to take on a subservient role. It’s pathetic.
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I’ve learned the hard way to just clam up and listen in most forums where this comes up, precisely because I have the same unashamedly hostile attitude toward organized religion. The first wave of suffragists were women who correctly pointed out the historical role that religious authorities had played in the subjugation of women, my own feminism is inextricably linked with my atheism, but phrase it the wrong way and you have women who claim to be intersectional feminists shouting you down with cries of “Islamophobe.”
ETA: Not to make this about my feelings. My point has more to do with tactics, inclusiveness, and the fact that women’s rights have been on the defensive in the US for years, while the gay rights movement has made astonishing progress, despite what should be a vast difference in movement size in favor of feminism. I think that’s because the gay rights movement never got comfortable enough to turn on its own and start telling people they couldn’t be allies.
From the age of about 15 until late-thirties/early-forties, women are basically treated like produce, and while some women do think of it as “nice,” I can attest having lived through it that it’s a kind of prison. It definitely crosses racial and cultural borders, but like Nooj says, the brazen street commentary is a cakewalk compared to the much more subtle or insidious forms of this kind of harassment, especially in an institutional or work environment. I think it’s great when witnesses hold out a hand because it’s even tougher when you’re young and on your own. Luckily (at least for me), after a certain age you literally become invisible. It was really only when I got older that I realized how much of an effect being under constant siege can have on your life and how freeing it is when it stops.
ps. I’m glad that slate article linked to Jessica Williams’s piece on this from The Daily Show. It’s hilarious and perfect, but in not being as in-your-face as this video, it didn’t get the same attention – which I hope it starts to get now.
: )
Oddly enough I can appreciate what this feels like. When I was in my early 20s I had long hair. I’m quite short and, at the time, was quite slight of build.
I was walking home from a party one night, around 1am, in Edinburgh. This guy who was walking towards me kept moving so that he was walking right at me (this was from about 100m away). I moved to the right, he moved to his left. This kept happening right up until he was almost in my face. “Alright darlin’… HOLY FUCK IT’S A GUY” and he quickly scarpered.
It was appalling. And all I could think was “but what if I wasn’t?”
It’s absolutely beyond appalling that one wouldn’t be able to simply walk down the street without being harassed in any way shape or form, regardless of gender, race or any such shite.
What clinches it for me is, the expression on the woman’s face is not in any way inviting of anything, certainly not inviting of amorous attentions.
In San Francisco I’ve experienced what I call “the SF Stare”. It’s when I’m walking down the street, feel someone looking at me, spy out a woman staring at me, she sees me, then quickly looks away like I’ve committed an assault. It’s annoying and disturbing. The one thing it does not do is make me want to engage with her in any way.
A[quote name=“ElCapitanAmerica” url=“/community/t/150432/misogyny-and-the-discrimination-and-abuse-of-women-here-and-around-the-world#post_3795872”]Is it possible that the intensity/frequency of catcalling is culturally based?
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Rejected alternate title for that video: Black guys with no game
Andy, this is such an interesting story. I’ve heard of straight guys getting hit on by gay guys (and the occasional accompanying homophobic panic), but this is the first time I’ve heard of a guy actually experiencing true male heterosexual aggression. I think you completely get it in a way that I think is hard for men generally - through no lack of empathy or sensitivity - just because it’s something they can go through life having never encountered directly. It’s like how white people have to gain awareness of the very different experience of being a person of color in this country because it’s not something you’re confronted with every day.
Meanwhile, I probably laughed a little too hard at this: Funny Or Die’s 10 Hours of Walking in NYC for a Man.
How I wish that I were surprised…
I’ve been hit on by Gay men. It disturbs me in the sense that said men are creepy as hell. I also have friends who moved to SF from Kenya and it’s been heartbreaking to see them change from very friendly, open people to closed and somewhat bitter people, specifically because of the daily experience of being Black in the US.
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Most distressing from the article:White men, on the other hand, have no use for that sort of catcalling. They marked their territory centuries ago.
Women are even getting hit on by guys that are centuries old. Fucking zombies are even harassing women. And white zombies of course. Rob would totally have never named his band that had he known.
A
Shirtgate. All of the real problems for women in the world and we’re doing this? Really?
AI want to see that dude’s closet.
AIsnt modern life wonderful