Originally Posted by Dan Whitehead Yeah, I’m wondering where the “thousands” of dollars comes in. All the peripherals together wouldn’t push it over the one grand mark, let alone thousands plural. I mean, you have to buy the games I suppose, but that’s like saying a DVD player could cost you thousands if you want the “full experience” of watching more than one movie.
I think they mean the HDTV you would “have” to buy to get the full effect of the system.
As a matter of fact I don’t think the ads for the 360 or the actual box the system comes in will mention anything about compatibility with the old Xbox. Microsoft is not selling this as Xbox 1.5, it’s selling it as a brand new system.
And as Dan said, I don’t remember anyone bitching when SNES turned out not to be compatible with NES. As a matter of fact, I don’t remember anyone raising the issue at all.
And there was certainly no uproar about Gamecube abandoning cartridges and backwards compatibility for those kiddy DVDs. No cries of “Nintendough”.
Originally Posted by Dan Whitehead And if Microsoft was marketing the 360 as being able to play every Xbox game ever, then the article might have a point. But they’re not. It’s up to the consumer to educate themselves before making a purchase like this - and the information is hardly being kept secret.
They’re probably just including HDTVs in that remark.
I found more amusing the Xbox Live comment. “You’ll need to spend nearly $600!” I’m still not sure how they arrived at that crazy number. A router and what else exactly?
A pretty worthless article overall. They neglected to mention the one big drawback of the system (lack of next-gen dvd), perhaps because even they realize the difficulty of slamming HDTV costs one second and then praising the disc format designed for them the next. Otherwise the reasons listed are so mindnumbing and generic. Seriously, “only 19 games available at launch”? Maybe I missed the launches where two hundred games were released on day one.
Originally Posted by mastronikolas As a matter of fact I don’t think the ads for the 360 or the actual box the system comes in will mention anything about compatibility with the old Xbox. Microsoft is not selling this as Xbox 1.5, it’s selling it as a brand new system. And as Dan said, I don’t remember anyone bitching when SNES turned out not to be compatible with NES. As a matter of fact, I don’t remember anyone raising the issue at all. And there was certainly no uproar about Gamecube abandoning cartridges and backwards compatibility for those kiddy DVDs. No cries of “Nintendough”.
I think there is a bit of adifference between the NES and XBOX.
First off there was no such thing as backwards compatibility, so even if there was bitching there really wasn’t too much you could do about it. I believe Sega first the idea of bc an issue then Sony did as well.
On the second point about Gamecube abandoning cartridges. It was probably a “thank god they are finally using disks” situation. The truth of the matter is that cartridges are just too costly as compaired to CD/DVD (despite the speed advantage a cartridge has). It was their use of cartridges that allowed the PS to win the console war in the first place because third parties didn’t want to use carts.
Originally Posted by DerekT The PS3 will play PS1 and PS2 games (at least until those DREs appear). No need to download a patch or anything.
Not even the people at Sony know if that will be true when the machine is released. That’s the intent, but it was the intent of MS for the 360 to be fully backwards compatible.
People might not have complained that the SNES wasn’t BC, but I bet there were some articles like this one pointing out that playing old NES games on the new machine wasn’t an option.
And until the DS/Micro, Nintendo was great about keeping BC with GameBoy games.
You guys do realize that this is for regular people, right? Not game nerds? Regular people don’t understand that there will be 19 games at launch. They don’t remember the last launch. It isn’t important to them. They think that there will be a number of games to choose from at the store. They may not understand that an XBox game is different from an XBox 360 game. Most of these people just have Christmas lists from their kids and don’t really know what the heck they’re doing.
Originally Posted by Russ Fischer Not even the people at Sony know if that will be true when the machine is released. That’s the intent, but it was the intent of MS for the 360 to be fully backwards compatible. People might not have complained that the SNES wasn’t BC, but I bet there were some articles like this one pointing out that playing old NES games on the new machine wasn’t an option. And until the DS/Micro, Nintendo was great about keeping BC with GameBoy games.
Actually Sony does know their games will be backwards compatible. The reason is because Sony basicly pays for the old hardware to be on the system. The reason why XBOX is not BC is because they changed graphics hardware between the 2 systems. In reality XBOX is using more of emulation than actually being BC.
Sony did a pretty good BC job the first time, so I don’t see why they won’t know about it until the PS3 comes out?
All that’s true, Dev, but if rumors of shortages are true only people who have pre-orders or stand in line at Wal-Mart release day (see: game nerds) will be getting a 360 before Christmas anyway. The average consumer needs to store this article in memory until January.
That’s why a responsible journalist should try and educate the regular people.
Telling them that despite the fact that Microsoft is planning to release over 200 games there will be only 19 availble at launch isn’t education. It’s sensationalism. And a lie.
Telling them that all new systems get a handful of games at launch and gradually build up libraries of games is education.
Telling them that it’s not 100% bacwards compatible is education. Making it a reason not to buy a system is not.
I can’t see how the advice to buy an Xbox and a PS2 and a Gamecube, instead of a 360 is good, responsible advice.
This is a terribly written article, full of misinformation and perhaps serving an agenda.
Originally Posted by DerekT The PS3 will play PS1 and PS2 games (at least until those DREs appear). No need to download a patch or anything.
I’m not sure this is true. The last rumor floating around was that the PS3 would have the same limited BC as the 360.
People seem to have gotten spoiled about backwards compatibility. If I remember correctly, the only reason the PS2 could play all PS1 games was due to having the PS1’s chipset actually included in the PS2. That’s not going to happen with future systems.
So if we consider the huge number of PS1/PS2 games on the market, and the fact they’ll all need to be emulated, AND the fact (if MS is to be believed regarding their list) that they need final hardware to certify backwards compatibility…how in the world could the PS3 have complete backwards compatibility?
Sony would need to finalize the hardware, then wait months while the BC team got to work on emulation, before finally going into production. And that’s even IF the thing comes with a HDD, which I’ve heard it doesn’t.
Originally Posted by mastronikolas That’s why a responsible journalist should try and educate the regular people. Telling them that despite the fact that Microsoft is planning to release over 200 games there will be only 19 availble at launch isn’t education. It’s sensationalism. And a lie. Telling them that all new systems get a handful of games at launch and gradually build up libraries of games is education. Telling them that it’s not 100% bacwards compatible is education. Making it a reason not to buy a system is not. I can’t see how the advice to buy an Xbox and a PS2 and a Gamecube, instead of a 360 is good, responsible advice. This is a terribly written article, full of misinformation and perhaps serving an agenda.
You forgot to mention telling them “you shouldn’t buy an sytem because it doesn’t have x hot game on it” isn’t good either. I mean when the PS3 comes out will I hear how “you shouldn’t get a PS3, you can’t play Halo 3 or
Super Smash Bros. on it”
Originally Posted by devincf You guys do realize that this is for regular people, right? Not game nerds? Regular people don’t understand that there will be 19 games at launch. They don’t remember the last launch. It isn’t important to them. They think that there will be a number of games to choose from at the store. They may not understand that an XBox game is different from an XBox 360 game. Most of these people just have Christmas lists from their kids and don’t really know what the heck they’re doing.
Yeah, I agree. I imagine average Joe consumer/soccer mom has no idea what he/she is getting into with the 360 options. On the same note, those same people are probably really confused with the GBA, GBA:SP, GBA:Micro, and DS choices as well.
Originally Posted by DerekT Actually Sony does know their games will be backwards compatible. The reason is because Sony basicly pays for the old hardware to be on the system. The reason why XBOX is not BC is because they changed graphics hardware between the 2 systems. In reality XBOX is using more of emulation than actually being BC. Sony did a pretty good BC job the first time, so I don’t see why they won’t know about it until the PS3 comes out?
“However, it was Sakamoto’s comments regarding the PS3 that made the most headlines. When responding to questions about whether the SCPH-75000’s backward-compatibility issues heralded similar problems with Sony’s next-gen console, she demurred. “It’s hard to say the PlayStation 3 will be 100 percent backwards compatible, but as we said earlier this year, we aim to make it so as much as possible,” Sakamoto said, according to IDG. Attempts to elicit clarifying comments from Sony Computer Entertainment America reps were unsuccessful as of press time.”
Originally Posted by DerekT Actually Sony does know their games will be backwards compatible. The reason is because Sony basicly pays for the old hardware to be on the system. The reason why XBOX is not BC is because they changed graphics hardware between the 2 systems. In reality XBOX is using more of emulation than actually being BC. Sony did a pretty good BC job the first time, so I don’t see why they won’t know about it until the PS3 comes out?
Sony and Microsoft both switched GPU manufacturers from the last generation. Microsoft went fron nVidia to ATI, and Sony went from ATI to nVidia, iirc.
I have no idea how the deal on the PS1 chipset worked out, but if swapping graphic chipsets is the reason Microsoft had to go with emulation, then the same should be true of the PS3.
Originally Posted by TheTwist I’m not sure this is true. The last rumor floating around was that the PS3 would have the same limited BC as the 360. People seem to have gotten spoiled about backwards compatibility. If I remember correctly, the only reason the PS2 could play all PS1 games was due to having the PS1’s chipset actually included in the PS2. That’s not going to happen with future systems. So if we consider the huge number of PS1/PS2 games on the market, and the fact they’ll all need to be emulated, AND the fact (if MS is to be believed regarding their list) that they need final hardware to certify backwards compatibility…how in the world could the PS3 have complete backwards compatibility? Sony would need to finalize the hardware, then wait months while the BC team got to work on emulation, before finally going into production. And that’s even IF the thing comes with a HDD, which I’ve heard it doesn’t.
I want to know where you heard that rumor. Because I haven’t heard that one. I have heard how the PS3 is going to be $600 dollars, I have heard that it will not allow you to play a game on any system other than the first one, I have heard that every 3rd party is leaving for Revolution and XBOX, but thats a new one.
Edited to add: just read your post above me (wow lost of quick posts on this thread). Ok I see where your going, I believe though Sony said they will pay the old manufactures for the BC. I may be wrong on this or its just an rumor I heard. Its just surprising becuase I’ve heard almost no mention of limited BC for Sony til now.
I think Russ is correct in saying that PS3 backwards compatibility is a real thorny issue and Sony doesn’t have a tested and certified solution yet… as far as we know. On the other hand Sony’s situation is different from Microsoft’s. They don’t have proprietary third-party hardware (the nVidia GPU) to emulate. They can build emulation into the PS3 anyway they want to, up to including hardware emulation (essentially recycling the guts of the PS2 inside the machine, similar to how PS1 emulation was handled). Also they don’t have the thorny hard-drive issue to work around.
Originally Posted by The Sphinx All that’s true, Dev, but if rumors of shortages are true only people who have pre-orders or stand in line at Wal-Mart release day (see: game nerds) will be getting a 360 before Christmas anyway.
Originally Posted by The Sphinx All that’s true, Dev, but if rumors of shortages are true only people who have pre-orders or stand in line at Wal-Mart release day (see: game nerds) will be getting a 360 before Christmas anyway.
Well, it also disregards the facts a bit. I could buy that your average parent won’t know the score, but where do those christmas lists come from? The kids asking for these systems definitely know about past launches.
It’s a very weak excuse for panning the system, even before you factor in the shockingly rational reminder that Microsoft Ninjas don’t come and steal your Xbox1 if you buy the 360.
Originally Posted by devincf Video game snobs are so weird.
Heh. Pretty much.
Other than the fact that I simply don’t really play video games anymore (except Call of Duty online), I won’t get an Xbox 360 because it basically has the functionality and processing power of a high end PC. The problem with that is, I have a high end PC. I don’t need another one putting a $400 hole in my wallet.
If I do get a next gen console, it will be either the PS3 or the Revolution. And I will have to be employed by then, because I have better things to do with my money while unemployed.