In his monologue Tuesday, Letterman remarked that Amanda Simpson, a transgender woman, had been appointed to work in the Commerce Department’s Bureau of Industry and Security, where she will monitor the export of military technology. As a photograph of Simpson was shown, announcer Alan Kalter shouted, “What? Amanda? Amanda used to be a dude?” “Oh my God!” he shouted, before running off stage, with audience laughing. In a letter to Letterman and CBS Entertainment President Nina Tassler, Human Rights Campaign called the bit “inappropriate and incendiary” and said it reflected “transphobia,” a fear or hatred of transgender people. “Your skit affirmed and encouraged a prejudice against transgender Americans that keeps many from finding jobs, housing, and enjoying freedoms you and your writers take for granted every day,” HRC’s Allyson Robinson wrote in the letter.
I don’t even know if this organization is honestly offended by this joke or if they’re just using it as a platform to talk about this nomination. I don’t see how the joke is really that offensive at all.
I liked Conan’s joke better, he said Obama appointed the first Transgender person to the commerce department, and then commented that it was nice to see Obama cross party lines and appoint Anne Coulter.
They seem to be completely missing the point of the joke. Kalter’s over the top reaction, not the transgender status of the appointee, is the object of the joke. They’re laughing at Kalter, not her.
Originally Posted by CuchulainView Post They seem to be completely missing the point of the joke. Kalter’s over the top reaction, not the transgender status of the appointee, is the object of the joke. They’re laughing at Kalter, not her.
…But the transgender status of the appointee is what caused Kalter’s reaction, which makes it part of the joke, and therefore kinda shitty.
Originally Posted by JakeView Post …But the transgender status of the appointee is what caused Kalter’s reaction, which makes it part of the joke, and therefore kinda shitty.
I see it more as laughing at the kind of person who would sleep with a transgendered person without realizing it and then take great offense than poking fun at the concept of a transgendered person.
I don’t think it’s that bad a joke, personally. I can see how it could offend, but I tend to think it’s more a joke about the man’s shock that he didn’t know something so basic about a person he was involved with, than a joke saying this woman was an abberation or that transgenderism is bad. That’s just me though
With that said, given the amount of grief that individual is getting from the bigots, I can see how you’d be sick of any jokes, whether or not they were mean spirited
Originally Posted by CuchulainView Post I see it more as laughing at the kind of person who would sleep with a transgendered person without realizing it and then take great offense than poking fun at the concept of a transgendered person.
I don’t really see how you can separate the two.
The joke was obviously about a guy sleeping with somebody who they thought looked completely like a female but was born a man. As simple as that, but I don’t think how that is directly playing on any negative stereotypes.
She did use to be a man no?
And they’re not making fun of her appearance either, which might be getting into the more offensive territory.
Originally Posted by ElCapitanAmericaView Post I don’t really see how you can separate the two.
It’s really easy to divorce the two concepts. Just look at something like All in the Family. Minorities and hippies give rise to Archie Bunker’s antics and you laugh at not with the character. You wouldn’t say that Miller thought that blacks and the counterculture were part of the joke, so I don’t see why you would in this case either.
But doesn’t a bit of the humor of “Ha ha, you really slept with someone who used to be a guy and didn’t know it” come from implying there’s something “wrong” with it?
I think it’s a good point to make that there probably wouldn’t be a Late Show joke about Alan being upset at finding out (I guess someone he had never met) was gay or black.
Trans people get left out and isolated by so many people, so, as the website CZ linked to points out, using the usual defense in criminal trials involving attacks on them as a punchline is maybe not going to go over well. Though it’s probably hard to find a mainstream comedian who hasn’t used a variant of this joke. The counselor on 30 Rock, Jeffery Weinerslav, complaining about being more oppressed than either Liz Lemon or Tracy is probably the only positive mainstream trans comedy moment I can think of. Always Sunny in Philadelphia kind of had a heartwarming relationship between Mac and that girl for awhile, although mixed in with a lot of jokes about her penis.
Originally Posted by CuchulainView Post It’s really easy to divorce the two concepts.
If you have a brain, yes. I’m not going to assume that the people watching it or the people who would immediately laugh at such a joke are thinking about it on a similar level, though.
Originally Posted by JakeView Post If you have a brain, yes. I’m not going to assume that the people watching it or the people who would immediately laugh at such a joke are thinking about it on a similar level, though.
I didn’t say I laughed. I don’t even watch the Late Show
Originally Posted by Richard DicksonView Post But doesn’t a bit of the humor of “Ha ha, you really slept with someone who used to be a guy and didn’t know it” come from implying there’s something “wrong” with it?
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Originally Posted by Felt PeltView Post I think it’s a good point to make that there probably wouldn’t be a Late Show joke about Alan being upset at finding out (I guess someone he had never met) was gay or black.
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Originally Posted by JakeView Post If you have a brain, yes. I’m not going to assume that the people watching it or the people who would immediately laugh at such a joke are thinking about it on a similar level, though.
I think all of these are correct.
And I do see Cuchulain’s point with the All in the Family example - that the real joke is aimed at the kind of person who’d freak out over a transgendered person, and not at the transgendered person themslves. But as Jake pointed out, the people who would have an immediate laugh at that joke are probably not thinking of it that way. The lowest common denominator is going to think the joke is about Amanda, not about Alan, no matter what the original intent of the joke was.
Honestly, I think Bob nailed it. I didn’t think this was offensive at all until I watched it. The poor execution of the joke is what makes the insensitive subtext stand out. If somebody like Larry Bud had done it, we would have been laughing at him, rather than that the idea of sleeping with a transgenered woman is gross.
Originally Posted by Richard DicksonView Post But doesn’t a bit of the humor of “Ha ha, you really slept with someone who used to be a guy and didn’t know it” come from implying there’s something “wrong” with it?
I dunno about “wrong”, but you could definitely find humor in it. C’mon, I’m all for LGBT rights, but don’t tell me that nonetheless there isn’t something striking about a man who’s now a woman.
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Originally Posted by JakeView Post If you have a brain, yes. I’m not going to assume that the people watching it or the people who would immediately laugh at such a joke are thinking about it on a similar level, though.
Well, do we want Letterman (or hell, any show) to do jokes that pander to the lowest common denominator? If I wanted that, I’d watch the Blue Collar guys.
I agree, the joke is the reaction, not “ha ha, she used to be a GUY, yuck!” I think it’s completely evident that that was the intention of the skit. People need to lighten up. Hell, I don’t even see why LGBT guys wouldn’t chuckle at it.
Originally Posted by BTSMGLView Post I dunno about “wrong”, but you could definitely find humor in it. C’mon, I’m all for LGBT rights, but don’t tell me that nonetheless there isn’t something striking about a man who’s now a woman. Well, do we want Letterman (or hell, any show) to do jokes that pander to the lowest common denominator? If I wanted that, I’d watch the Blue Collar guys. I agree, the joke is the reaction, not “ha ha, she used to be a GUY, yuck!” I think it’s completely evident that that was the intention of the skit. People need to lighten up. Hell, I don’t even see why LGBT guys wouldn’t chuckle at it.