Other than Bullock and (moreso) his business partner, is there a single likeable character in this series? A more despicable collection of sleazy, evil, abusive, pathetic individuals I’ve never seen.
And to be honest, it’s kinda turning me off of the series, five episodes in. I acknowledge the quality, but the fucking show makes me miserable. Dammit.
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| Originally Posted by Crash-Man View Post Other than Bullock and (moreso) his business partner, is there a single likeable character in this series? A more despicable collection of sleazy, evil, abusive, pathetic individuals I’ve never seen. And to be honest, it’s kinda turning me off of the series, five episodes in. I acknowledge the quality, but the fucking show makes me miserable. Dammit. |
Charlie Utter
Ellsworth
Joanie
Doc Cochrane
Trixie
Jane (despite irritating tendencies)
Merrick (despite really irritating tendencies)
But the peculiar genius of the show is in how these scumbags and cutthroats all slowly grow in complexity and sympathy until eventually, Swearengen seems a more likeable and healthy person than Bullock, who comes in as kind of the white-hat hero.
Stick with it. The show can be incredibly harsh and ugly, but that allows it to really earn grace notes in a way few works do. It has a giant beating heart so wide it can encompass even the worst of the scum as part of a flawed but real community.
Quote:
| Originally Posted by Crash-Man View Post Other than Bullock and (moreso) his business partner, is there a single likeable character in this series? A more despicable collection of sleazy, evil, abusive, pathetic individuals I’ve never seen. And to be honest, it’s kinda turning me off of the series, five episodes in. I acknowledge the quality, but the fucking show makes me miserable. Dammit. |
Charlie Utter
Ellsworth
Joanie
Doc Cochrane
Trixie
Jane (despite irritating tendencies)
Merrick (despite really irritating tendencies)
But the peculiar genius of the show is in how these scumbags and cutthroats all slowly grow in complexity and sympathy until eventually, Swearengen seems a more likeable and healthy person than Bullock, who comes in as kind of the white-hat hero.
Stick with it. The show can be incredibly harsh and ugly, but that allows it to really earn its grace notes the way few works do. It has a giant beating heart so wide it can encompass even the worst of the scum as part of a flawed but real community, although it admittedly takes a while for that to become apparent.
Quote:
| Originally Posted by Crash-Man View Post Other than Bullock and (moreso) his business partner, is there a single likeable character in this series? A more despicable collection of sleazy, evil, abusive, pathetic individuals I’ve never seen. And to be honest, it’s kinda turning me off of the series, five episodes in. I acknowledge the quality, but the fucking show makes me miserable. Dammit. |
Sol, Jane, Charlie, Doc, Ellsworth and the Nigger General are the only really likable characters that survive for more than a few episodes.
Bullock is actually one of the least likable people on the show. He fucks around on his wife, is kind of a textbook sociopath, tries to drive Sol and Trixie apart for not entirely noble or reasonable reasons, and seems to side with the idea that retribution is justice.
Bullock basically boils down to “I’m really pissed of right now and would like to smack somebody, let’s walk around camp and hopefully find somebody breaking the law”.
And, eh, how on earth is Swearengen not likeable?
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| Originally Posted by Crash-Man View Post A more despicable collection of sleazy, evil, abusive, pathetic individuals I’ve never seen. |
Come to Washington D.C. and see all of the Republican and Democrat politicians. Deadwood is genius. Yeah it takes a while to get going but Season 2 is a thing of beauty.
I think it hits the ground running. Maybe it takes an episode to get used to the voice of the show, but the early episodes are wonderful, just for the Hickok stuff alone. Here Was a Man is one of my favorite episodes of the whole series.
I actually don’t think there’s an unlikeable character on the show until Hearst shows up. Al and the people in Al’s employ are pretty much my favorite characters on the show, but I even have affection for Tolliver and Wollcott, because they’re so fiercely intelligent and verbose.
I’ve been avoiding this thread because when I get to talking about Deadwood, I usually can’t stop and end up watching the series again.
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| Originally Posted by Schwartz View Post Charlie Utter Ellsworth Doc Cochrane |
Yes, I was terrible to not include these three. Charlie Utter alone made me enjoy the actor’s performance in Sons of Anarchy that much more. What a powerful voice! Thing is, the way things were going where I left off, I thought Utter had left the camp for good. And I thought Ellsworth was going to get fed to the pigs, and soon.
I also like that preacher guy who works for Sol and Bullock. I kept waiting for him to show some other shitty side, like fundie rage or something, but he seems pretty cool.
Al Swearengen entertains me, but fuck no I don’t like the guy. Christ, he’s a few shades removed from Satan in some scenes.
I’ll give it another try this week, and return with findings.
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| Originally Posted by Crash-Man View Post Al Swearengen entertains me, but fuck no I don’t like the guy. Christ, he’s a few shades removed from Satan in some scenes. |
You know, I ain’t even going to argue here. I’ll just sit back and wait for the inevitable oops post.
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| Originally Posted by Crash-Man View Post Christ, he’s a few shades removed from Satan in some scenes. |
Just wait… the way Bullock and Al are set against each other, the sort of old-school, outraged quality of Bullock’s sense of justice vs. Al’s devilish, amoral self-interest is only the beginning of these two very complicated characters. What’s so great about Al is he never becomes a good guy, but our perception of him changes as Deadwood grows. He’s brutally pragmatic, and a survivor, first and foremost. His movement from devil to “the devil you know” is probably my favorite thing about the series.
How intentional do you think that was? And how much was just 'Holy shit, this McShane guy is a goddamn phenom, let’s make him the central character"?
Milch has always been upfront about rather not planning, but I think it was intentional. Every comment I’ve read of him about Bullock seems to indicate he knew precisely what the character was going to be about from the start and it was probably only the audience that figured “Bullock hero, Swearengen villain”. Plus, their tentative union seems too central to Deadwood’s themes not to have been a part of the original.
Wolcott is downright tragic by the end of season 2. He’s mentally ill, unlike the cold, calculating viciousness and evil of Hearst. Cy and Hearst are the only two died-in-the-wool shitheels in the main cast, although even Cy seems to lose his shit somewhat when Hearst has Ellsworth killed.
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| Originally Posted by Francis Wolcott View Post And, eh, how on earth is Swearengen not likeable? |
This. Keep watching and if you don’t love the bastard by the end… I don’t know what to tell you. It’s about context as well. You have to look at where/when they are. Rough times and all that.
What about Johnny? He’s pretty likable.
Oh and yes, E.B. is arguably my favorite to quote. Such a fucking shithead, but my god is it funny to watch him lose it.
“Why am I on my ass?”
Reverend Smith’s condition is fucking heartbreaking. I really liked the guy. I was wary at first that he’d reveal himself to be some sort of asshole, particularly with regards to Sol’s ethnicity, but he’s such a genuinely compassionate, friendly and faithful guy. And this is coming from an agnostic. I think the irony of his fate, as well as his stoicism, speak more about the harshness of the town than the language and violence.
I also appreciated the indignation voiced by even Swearengen and his henchmen at Smith’s presence among the whores. You guys are right about Al being pragmatic and reasonable, but I also wonder whether it was as Arjen put it. I don’t think the Swearengen who ordered a hit on a little girl at the beginning of the series is the same Swearengen I’m seeing being secretly compassionate to Rev Smith and honorable to Wu at the end of the first season.
Any show takes half its first season to figure out how the characters work, and while I doubt Al is beyond ordering a child’s death in later seasons, I think it would probably have been much bigger deal. But yeah, without knowing it, Al is basically Deadwood’s first politician, and as such values protection and expedience over morality, which he seems to regard as luxury easily discarded.
i cant read this thread very much cause im currently watching the series.
so far im only seen up to the first episode of season 2. I’ve been watching this show at a snail’s pace because i LOVE it soooo damn much. I know its a incomplete series. so I’ve prepared myself for an unsatisfying ending. But Its gonna break my goddamn fucking heart when i have no more left to watch.
I’ve seen the first season at least twice. Currently going for a 3rd. Everytime I show one of my friends the first episode they love it, and i end up having to rewatch the 1st season with them. Not that it bothers me though. This 3rd time, I’m rewatching it with my girlfriend who’s immediately fell in love with it too. I think watching the 1st season two or three times makes me love these characters even more. I’ve invested A LOT of time in them already.
So I’m sure Season 2 will really surprise me. Shit watching Bullock and Swearengen have that fist fight was fucking great. Knew they we’re gonna throw down sometime. Though at the end of the 1st season i though they were kinda hitting each other’s stride. But my heart started to pound once their fight got out in the street. And my jaw dropped when Johnny started shooting.
It was nice to see that badge on Charlie too
And here comes my inevitable post about the ending of Deadwood, which, without getting spoilery, basically boils down to the fact that I was okay where it got cut off; though obviously there were more stories to tell.
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| Originally Posted by Arjen Rudd View Post Any show takes half its first season to figure out how the characters work, and while I doubt Al is beyond ordering a child’s death in later seasons, I think it would probably have been much bigger deal. But yeah, without knowing it, Al is basically Deadwood’s first politician, and as such values protection and expedience over morality, which he seems to regard as luxury easily discarded. |
Something should be said of the fact that Al eventually chooses to handle the Sophia situation differently and that, the main reason for the order in the first place, is pragmatic in the “not ruin the camp’s reputation” sense, which is later contrasted with Cy Tolliver’s handling of the robbery at his place and his less community-oriented and more “don’t fuck with me” motivation.